Wow! That is potentially really good news for me since I was just about to pose the questions of what charts are available for British Columbia other than the CHS raster charts and the mediocre Chart World charts. It may also help alleviate my desire for more tidal information in the BC waters.

Since I already have NobelTech Max Pro charts installed and have the dongle, does that mean I can use them with CE? If so, what do I need to do to activate them in CE?

thanks, John

I forgot to add that I have already installed the update and have downloaded the sample data for Seattle. Everything looks good in my brief run through.

17-Nov-2011  brad

Unfortunately those C-MAP "MAX PRO" charts will only work with Nobeltec and are apparently completely different than the formats we support.

The MAX format does include a lot more Canadian tide and current stations than Coastal Explorer has built-in...

Jeppesen has two MAX options for BC that work in Coastal Explorer:

• NA-M025.13 - CANADA WEST for $199
• NA-M035.02 - PACIFIC COAST AND CENTRAL AMERICA for $299

The first one only covers the west coast of Canada while the other also covers Alaska, the US West Coast, Hawaii, Mexico, and Central America.

We are hoping to include these in the "World View" of the new Chart Catalog soon so it'll be easier to find out what's available...

I was afraid you were going to say that about the "Max Pro" charts. I have a hard time keeping up with all these different chart types. The prices you quoted for the Max charts seem quite reasonable though, especially if they have all the tidal data that Tides and Currents has. I guess my questions there would be, how current and how complete are the Max charts? I guess Ill have to do a little more research before Í get too excited.

Wow..this is a BIG suprise, how did you pull that one off?

Dunno if it's intentional but the instrument panel legend is now showing up blue, preferred it black TBH.

Spose I'll have to buy a CMap NT disc now to test it.

Anyway, well done.... and a good move internationally.

Steve

Also great progress on the AIS plotter, thanks very much for that, much better at greater ranges. Problem...I have those horrible NV black screen bars on my rasters when putting a raster and CM side by side, yet there's no NV charts on this machine, I got rid of them ages ago. I'll send a screen shot tomorrow, just got back from the gas terminal at Bacton, V tired.

S

17-Nov-2011  brad

C-MAP charts are updated twice a year, so they are pretty up to date. Jeppesen sells updates and also has a "club" you can join (for a fee) that includes one "cartridge" update and discounts on subsequent cartridges with the price of the membership. (Even when the charts are sold on a DVD they call the set a "cartridge".) They say joining the club is the cheapest way to keep your charts up to date. We'll have more information on updates and their cost before the beta testing is complete...

You can check on their coverage here: http://ww1.jeppesen.com/marine/lightmarine/max/coverage.jsp

We'll try to get a list of tide and current stations that are included in each cartridge, but I have a feeling that might be challenging to produce.

The instrument label color change was intentional; we had too many complaints that the gray was too hard to see under some conditions. Perhaps we should keep trying...

You don't need to buy any C-MAP charts to try it (and we encourage people NOT to buy any until the beta testing is over); use the Chart Portfolio and download the free trial charts to get a feel for how these are going to work.

Con grat - this is wonderful news - I am so glad I didn't renew my ChartWorld collection!

-Sverre

OK Brad, solved the NV black chart issue, it seems that wierdly, CE picked them up from your folder on my DB, where there is a set lurking, when it did the update. So a non-problem. Damn things get everywhere. Yep got to be honest don't like the blue, my eyes don't pick lightish blue out too well. Also miss the inst panel "barrier" line. One of the great visual appeals of CE, for me at least, is it's symmetry, and having different panes well defined, I know it's probably OCD, but I would also like the pane outline back on the Guide book map.

Great stuff anyway.

Kind Regards and Thanks

Steve

PS.Maybe at some future time you could have the inst panel text colour defineable?

Will CE be able to use the C-map NT link USB card reader as well to read charts off a card. There are some very good deals on NT and NT+/Max cartridges.

S

19-Nov-2011  brad

We have tested and will support NT+ and MAX cartridges with Jeppesen's latest card reader and they work, but chart access is noticeably slower than when the charts are installed to a hard drive. This reader can handle several different types of cartridge.

Older C-MAP card readers may work, but I'm not sure if they would be compatible with newer versions of Windows... We won't be able to help with these since they are no longer available and we don't have any of them.

Jeppesen says that the older NT charts should work, but we don't have any to test with so we aren't going to claim that they do. (NT charts are no longer produced; that format was replaced by NT+.)

I only asked because I have one of the old NT readers that I used with MX. I suppose it will have to be the new orange one, they are about £145, so probably cheaper to go for the EW MAX on disc. If I can borrow an NT+ cartridge sometime soon I'll test it, but I expect that almost certainly there will be an encryption translation issue. The nearest demo chart to the UK is the Stockholm set. There doesn't appear to be any T&C info on it, and just brings up the nearest Belfield UK prediction which are normally installed. Even though I disabled these I could not coax the NT+ chart to bring it up. There may have to be a way of disabling different T&C sets, although of course they may not be there. Any chance of an obscure UK area for demo, where I can check this out more fully?

S

19-Nov-2011  brad

Try the Nieuwpoort Area Demo chart... It misses your Swansea by about 20nm, but it does have some nearby tide and current stations and covers the South East portion of the UK with more detail than the world chart (though most of this chart's detail is in France).

The C-MAP tide/current stations look different than the built-in stations, so when you have both, you can decide which one to use by clicking on it. We might also add a way to select nearby stations from within the browser so you can get to them even when they are not visible on the chart.

Hi Brad, Yes the Belgian chart does cover the Solent and as far west as Cardiff in reasonable scale. The tides and currents are there, and also clicking on them brings up CE's own Graphs, I'm very impressed with how you have managed to do that, which must have incurred significant database and data translation. I had expected it to bring up CM's own t&c representation, so thats great. OK there is a problem, which I havent quite got my head around yet, in that the C-map chart appears to set istself in the primary window replacing the primary N-UP raster. If you try and do it in another pane then the Extra Layers for the raster chart become unavailable. As I'm sure you know by now my, modus operandi, is a split screen N-UP Raster Right and C-UP vector left, ie the raster refers to the radar, and the vector sees where you are going. As far as I can tell at the moment with the CM this does not seem to be possible. But I'm still looking at this in greater detail and hope to have something more concrete for you to go on soon. The CM Currents are very "a lá Maxsea 10/11/12", as one would expect, and they present in exactly the same way with different colour shading for greater current and sized arrows, which is excellent, espescially for our rag and stick colleagues.

Cheers

Steve

Brad, because CM always occupies the primary chart position, both sets of T&C data appear on the CM chart. I cant get rid of this and it looks a bit of a mess.

Does this happen with the US T&C's as well?

Cheers

Steve

20-Nov-2011  brad

C-MAP only appearing in the Primary Chart Panel is a bug. We'll get it fixed for the next update.

I'm not sure what we'll do about the tide and current overlap issue... The problem is that in some areas the two datasets have different coverage or different levels of detail. (Unlike your screen shot where they seem to match.) This is on our list of issues to think about though.

Brad - as a current "Club Jeppesen" member, I purchase an annual NT+ card update - in my case encompassing the area from Olympia to Port Hardy.

I currently use the card for my aging Ray Marine Chartplotter. It would be great to be able to use the NT+ card to update my BC charts on Coastal Explorer - but it appears that to do that I would have to shell out $180. for the proprietary format Jeppesen USB C-Card reader, which IMHO is highway robbery for what appears to be a cheap chinese gadget.

Does anyone know of an alternative to this reader. Googling the web and eBay just brings me back to Jeppesen's reader :-(

21-Nov-2011  brad

The Jeppesen reader is proprietary and no "alternatives" exist. It is currently available only bundled with their PC Planner software which is certainly unnecessary for Coastal Explorer users. We are going to try to sell it separately and that might lower the price, but we're not sure if that will really happen yet.

In addition, you can only use a chart cartridge on one system at a time. You cannot update your PC charts from the cartridge and then stick the cartridge into your chart plotter; when you remove the cartridge from either the PC or the chart plotter, the charts will be removed from that screen. So depending on how you intend to use Coastal Explorer, the cartridge method may or may not work for you...

As far as content, is the only difference between the NT+ and the Max charts the coverage areas? Jeppesen's web site does make this very clear or I wasn't looking in the right place.

21-Nov-2011  brad

The chart data is the same but MAX contains a lot more "value added" (non-chart) information than NT+. For example, NT+ include tide predictions, but you need MAX to get tide and current predictions.

Thanks, that is just what I wanted to know, in spite of my typo. It seems like buying the Max charts and not the NT+ ones will be a no-brainer for me.

One more question, will the C-map charts be able to be installed on three computers with one license like Coastal Explore?

21-Nov-2011  brad

That depends... The C-MAP charts are licensed separately from Coastal Explorer and it's all handled by Jeppesen; you won't automatically be able to use your C-MAP charts on all of your Coastal Explorer PC's but there are a few options.

Jeppesen sells a "dongle" that can be used as a key when purchasing chart licenses. When you have a dongle, you can use the charts on whatever PC you plug the dongle into (after installing the charts and the license on that PC).

Or, if you are using a cartridge, then you could move the reader with the cartridge from one PC to another.

If you are not using the dongle or a cartridge, then the licence is bound to a particular PC. However, I've been told that users can usually get a second unlock code by calling Jeppesen and asking for it. (I cannot confirm this at the moment, though, and the license agreement doesn't mention it...)

The full Jeppesen license agreement is accessible in the C-MAP Chart Store in the Chart Portfolio. Select one of the C-MAP charts and look in the Property Panel for a link.

"If you are not using the dongle or a cartridge, then the licence is bound to a particular PC"

That would be the way to go, at least in my case where I use the same laptop to plan a voyage at home and later on the boat...

But it would certainly be a Showstopper if I have to pay full price again for the very same chart that I have already purchased on a cartridge through Club JEppesen. Does not seem right (IMHO)!

How much does this dongle cost? I've tried Google and Jeppesens web site, but I can find very little information and no price.

23-Nov-2011  brad

The dongles sell for around $35-$40... We don't have final pricing yet.

In my case, I believe the dongle and charts on a CD (loaded onto the HD) would be the easiest to use. Years ago one could buy a CD with charts of the world and unlock regions as you sailed into a new area. Is this CD still available for use with a dongle?

23-Nov-2011  brad

C-MAP charts are provided on DVD. There are five DVD's, each covering different parts of the world. Each DVD has a program called "PC Selector" which you must use to purchase, install, backup, and restore chart licenses.

These DVDs are available from Jeppesen and their dealers. Most dealers provide a DVD when you purchase a "voucher" from them. A voucher is code that acts as sort of a pre-paid credit to buy one chart via the PC Selector program (you enter the voucher code instead of your credit card info when placing your order).

The charts are locked and you need a key to use any of them. The key is a code you get from Jeppesen when you purchase a license for a set of charts. The key will only work for the PC that was used to make the purchase unless you have a dongle. If the dongle is attached to the PC when a chart license is purchased, then the license is bound to that dongle instead of the PC.

If you are using a dongle, then you can take it, the key, and the DVD to another PC and use the PC Selector program to install the key and the charts to that PC. After that you can swap the dongle back and forth between the PC's to use the charts without needing to use the DVD.

So the short answer is "yes", but you need 5 DVDs to cover the world.

Will there be support for features C-MAP MAX?

1. Guardian Alarm

2. Route-check

3. Perspective view

4. Multi-language capability - For support Cyrillic

Another minor Tide Related bug, you have to click on a C-map tide Icon more than once to get any action and there is no text cloud on click one like the Belfield set. If you go to Weymouth on the south coast where there isn't a UKHO prediction (because it's covered by Portland), C-map has a prediction for Weymouth on it's own from POL. You can see the different behaviour of the two sets here and how they react differently. I thought at first that it was because there were two sets up, but it isnt.

Steve

Another problem, although I'm using the Belgian Chart set, there are very few Tide Stations featured anywhere along the European coast, hardly any in France or Belgium or Holland which is the epicentre of the chart set. I think people there may feel a bit shortchanged by C-map, if that is the case and the only tides available in Western Europe are from UKHO or POL. They definitely need to show SHOM and AWNB tide data as well. The Belfield UKHO set has three times as many tide stations on mainland Europe than the C-map set.

Steve

28-Nov-2011  brad

Alexey: We are planning to support the "Guardian Alarm," "Route-check," and Multi-language features, but not the perspective view.

Steverow: We'll look into the tip problem and try to get it fixed for the next update...

We have no control over what tide or current stations are included in the C-MAP charts; these are the same charts (and therefore tide and current stations) that any other chart plotter using C-MAP data would use. However, what you are currently using is a "demo" and the "real" charts might contain more stations (we don't have the whole C-MAP world, so I can't tell).

OK Brad, I realise you have no control over the content, so no problem. Lets hope it isn't as bad as it looks.

A suggestion, If I may, as the C-Map NT Charts are a good deal brighter than ECDIS charts, colours are quite loud, would it be possible in any way to bring in your ECDIS chart colour filter system with them, so that they can be toned down a bit using the US/CAN/BRIGHT etc available on S57/63 charts.

Cheers

Steve

The C-Map colors in CE looks very different from other nav systems I have used / seen - I suggest RP take a look at this publication (section 4 on color definitions) ...

http://opencpn.kb-h.com/cpn_files/public/1318455332_1_FT24_s-52_specifications_for_chart_content_and_display_aspects_of_ecdis_edition_6.0_march_2010.pdf

-Sverre

I think the colour problem may be that these charts are specifically designed for stand alone plotters, with bright colours to suit, which doesn't really suit PC presentation in the same way. Unfortunately they are definitely not of S57 quality with very diiffrent colours. They will have their own chart engine as well. I'm hoping that Brad may be able to deploy a colour filter system on them, but I doubt whether they are ever going to replace the S57/63's for the professional market. They are what they are, C-maps Leisure Product, and still a very useful addition to the CE portfolio and welcome nonetheless.

30-Nov-2011  brad

Sverre: We are aware of the ECDIS color standards and provide those options for S-57 charts (though we have heard only complaints about those colors too; I think most people choose either the NOAA or CHS options which we developed based on colors used in raster charts). We have little to no control over how the C-MAP charts are presented; all of the details are handled by Jeppesen. So I'm afraid what you see is what you'll get...

Steverow: You are correct, these C-MAP charts are the "Leisure" product and are not meant to compete with ENC (S-57). However, the coverage offered by C-MAP is far greater than what is available in S-57 format and the C-MAP charts are far less expensive (at least outside of the US). Many commercial operators use C-MAP charts to augment their ENC so that they may continue to use their electronic charts when the are not in an area covered by ENC. However, in those areas, paper charts must also be carried since C-MAP charts are not "official" and do not meet chart carriage requirements.

Another tiny bug, there are some unicode errors on the presentation of tide and current station position in the properties panel, notably the usual one of an inverted diamond question mark, instead of degrees plus a few others I have spotted.

I'll go through it later and try and get you a full list, but there's not many.

Degrees is U+00B0

Steve

02-Dec-2011  brad

Thanks steverow! No need to look for more like this, though, as I noticed this too and the problems should all be fixed now. It was a general problem in the C-MAP properties. We should have another update later today...

"We recommend that you do not purchase C-MAP charts for use with Coastal Explorer until we have finished the beta test."

Christmas is coming and I'd like to put a chart (MW21) on my list. Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this?

-- Geoff

02-Dec-2011  brad

While I certainly do expect that we will finish and release C-MAP chart support in Coastal Explorer soon, that has not happened yet and it is not entirely in our control. (We've been pretty close to many other things in the past only to have something prevent an actual release.) I'd hate to have you spend money on charts for Coastal Explorer only to have our deal with Jeppesen fall apart at the last minute...

Brad, I dont know whether the data is not available in the C-map tides, but the mean springs and neaps lines are not drawn on the graph as per the Belfield tides. These are very important for me being in the Bristol Channel, as we have the second highest tidal range in the world, and tides of 10-12 metres are commonplace and occasionally up to 16m equinoxially. My only worry on these, is if the UKHO source should ever dry up..er as it were. Looking at the CE graph is very often the way I decide whether to proceed to sea or not. Hoping that this can be rectified. Also there are no sliding time markers on either Tide or Current graphs with the C-map tides.

Thanks for your work.

Steve

Sorry, I seem to be testing this to destruction point. At present there doesnt seem to be a way to save C-map on to any pre-defined screens such as the primary three spacebar clicks. Will this feature be added later when the testing is over?

S

Brad, this is great news - I have several C-Map chips for my Raymarine chart plotter. If you want to play with the PC reader or the NT charts, I can lend them to you.

07-Dec-2011  brad

steverow: I'm afraid what you see is what you get with the C-MAP tide and current station meta-data; they do not provide any information that we are not currently displaying. (However, the markers are under our control and will be added...they needed to be disabled temporarily as part of fitting the C-MAP predictions into the window).

The reason the C-MAP mode is not saved is because we are contractually required to display the warning message whenever they are first shown after starting the program. We are still waiting for permission to add a "Don't bug me again" option. If we get that, then the C-MAP chart type options will be saved just like the other chart types.

HenryD: Thank you very much for the offer, but I think we'll wait a bit before accepting (maybe latter though). We are required to use a MAX format world chart and we have identified some serious issues when mixing NT/NT+ and MAX format charts. This means we might need to drop support for NT+ (and NT) unless C-MAP can fix the problem. If they can get the mixed chart display to work, then we might be able to verify the NT chart support.

I assume C Map coverage is needed for non USA Charts? Is there data on them that is not included on NOAA or COE charts? Since I dumped Nobeltec 6 years ago, the only time I needed to buy charts was for the Bahamas area! Cappy

Cappy, this is a really big deal for those wanting vector charts outside of the United States, and because of the Legacy left by the Europeran Version of coastal explorer "Chart navigator Pro" there are quite a few of us. This is the best thing that Brad has ever managed to do IMHO, and has not been without trials and tribulations I know. It's a really great move.

Steve

12-Dec-2011  brad

The C-MAP charts do contain a bit of extra data beyond what is in the NOAA and USACE charts, but it mostly consists of roads, airports, points of interest, etc; all of the nautical chart data comes directly from the official charts. So you are correct that a US-only boater will have little reason to purchase the charts, but they will be a great option for everyone outside the US, or those US boaters that cruise in Canada, Mexico, or the Bahamas.

(BTW, these are the C-MAP charts that include the digitized Explorer Charts for the Bahamas which are widely regarded as a "must have" when cruising there...)

Brad, your last statement on the value of C-Map for foreign waters put my mind at ease. Even though C-Map as well as Navionics are providing updated carts at least twice per year, by the time the charts are taken from NOAA and placed into the format used by C-Map and Navionics (also includes Garmin charts) the charts are dated. Out of date charts are not a major issue unless boating is in areas that are subject to constant change such as the outerbanks areas of the US east coast. However, being able to get the Explorer Charts of the Bahamas is a major plus for me and will ease my constant push to get a georeferencing capability for Coastal Explorer! Now if you can just get the ability to use the Navionic charts that are available for iPhones and iPads we can have all of the inland rivers and lakes as well as coastal charts at a minimal cost. Maybe a version of Coastal Explorer that will run on iPads is the next important move!

I dont know what the situation is regarding navionics charts on phones and tablets, in the US, but elswhere they are done on a "not for navigation" license, and they only pay dues on the charts that are actually downloaded for each user. Therefore Navionics is effectively taking a considered gamble on each user that they dont download the whole lot. That is why the Navionics app doesnt show your exact postion in degeees and minutes on the chart in digital form, if it did, it would be a "for navigation license" and cost about eight times the price. C-map charts are updated fairly regularly, and although I like the Navionics on the android, C-map are a far better alternative for CE IMHO. Does anyone know why Navionics have not been allowed to have Denmark for the phone app?

The navionics apk is well screwed down, and unwraps itself into something else, and then checks the market account, licence, IMEI, and Mac Address of the device about every five start-ups. If it doesnt get the right answers they are blocked and finally deleted. No one has yet found a way round this AFAIK.

If you want to geo-ref you own charts, try Seaclear, use the MapCal utility and import into CE as BSB3. There are lots of free utilities around that will convert from WCI to BSB3.

http://www.sping.com/seaclear/index.htm

There is an image format process to go through, but most people use this: http://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php

If you just google WCI to BSB3 conversion you will find lots of info on the web.

Cheers and HNY

Steve

Do you have a timeline as to when you expect to get an decision from Jeppesen regarding approval for use of their charts?

Guys, time to move this up to the front burner. Nobeltec just released their new Odyssey and it reads C-Map/Jeppesen, Navionics, and comes with all U.S. Raster and Vectors included.

Nobeltec (MaxSea) uses a database Jeppesen, Navionics for the production of maps MapMedia.

Odyssey price very attractive

For CoastalExplorer it would be good to remake the library display ENC and iENC a standard S-52 symbols c approximate to the standard INT1. This has been done in most navigation software working with S-57, including OpenCPN. http://s2.ipicture.ru/Gallery/Viewfull/7963346.html

People are spoiled technology, 3D maps and satellite imagery wants to))) And all this is in the C-MAP MAX PRO

I'll repeat my question: Do you have a timeline as to when you expect to get an decision from Jeppesen regarding approval for use of their charts? Some of us actually cruise outside of the US, want to use this functionality and need to purchase charts before departing.

-- Geoff

We look forward to the 2010 announced Rose Point Fish Finder, NMEA2000 Engine Interface Add on. Judging by the changes in CE version 2009>> 2011 we expect the next release in 2013))))

Merv site for a year no news nothing. When will release?

16-Jan-2012  brad

We are not waiting for approval from Jeppesen to use their charts, we've had that for a long time. We have been waiting for them to fix several problems that we've reported in the SDK and we just received a new one today. We will be testing it this week, and should have an updated "beta" within the next day or two.

We are trying very hard to get this release out as soon as possible and I think we are very close.

Great news that we are close.

Would mention that we should not get hung up on 3D and satellite imagery. My primary reason for leaving Nobeltec along with its instability and buggy issues was that they got hung up on "bells and whistles" and lost the ability of fundamental good navigation performance. That included atrocious autopilot course tracking performance. If CE performs, as it has up to now as an exceptional navigation tool, includes tides and currents, particularly for BC, the Bahamas and other off shore regions, we should do very well with C-Map MAX/MAX PC. So keep up the good work and don't "lose the bubble." Have a great Seattle Boat Show.

I would like to see GE implemented at some point, if only to keep up with the obscenity that is OCPN. I too will never return to a Maxsea/Nobeltec product for my own personal reasons. Come what may I will stay loyal to RP, primarily because I STRONGLY support independent companies that are not part of large conglomerates.

Steve

I installed the new beta and tried it with my Central America & Caribbean charts and everything worked very well. It was a joy to use compared to the raster charts that I had been using. Very fast. Of course I'm sitting at home planning my route for later this year, so I'm sure that I'll find some bugs when I'm back on the boat! :-)

-- Geoff

Brad, could you explain how the range change for the AIS plotter instrument works please. I thought at one time I'd got it sussed and that it was a right click on the right hand side of the panel to increase range and the opposite for reducing range, but it doesnt seem to work this way every time. Also Ive noticed that if you set the range to say 8nm then when you click on a chart frame it drops back to 6nm. I'm probably being very thick and have missed the obvious, so if you could help me out please, I'd be grateful.

Steve

19-Jan-2012  brad

The range adjustment controls for the AIS plotter panel are not complete. When it is, there will be visible buttons and it will work better! In the mean time, clicking on the left side of the panel will reduce the range and clicking on the right side will increase the range (left-clicking). There is a problem preventing the panel from redrawing right away, though, so clicking won't always have an immediate affect. If you move the mouse out of the panel after clicking, it will redraw correctly though...

Just got your email announcing the C-Map option. Is the beta complete and is it safe to purchase charts? I notice the download option, do you know any of the ramifications of backup and restore of downloaded charts?

Mike

Never Mind, I see my mistake. I thought the add to cart was a download button.